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F1-3 Initial discussion

All discussion regarding the third season of Formula 1, taking place throughout Summer.
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FlavouryRug
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Re: F1-3 Initial discussion

Postby FlavouryRug » 01 Apr 2012, 22:48

Hmmm.. I'm somewhere in the middle with this. I think if traction control is allowed, even if just medium, it would be stupid for anyone not to use it. Therefore everyone uses it and the gap is the same. If people think this will solve the controller vs wheel and random spinning issues out then I think maybe medium would be a good compromise.

That being said I have really enjoyed having no TC/ABS in the series for myself but I have one niggle with it: If they're banned to make it more realistic, why are gears optional?
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Re: F1-3 Initial discussion

Postby Butler_F1 » 01 Apr 2012, 22:52

FlavouryRug wrote:Hmmm.. I'm somewhere in the middle with this. I think if traction control is allowed, even if just medium, it would be stupid for anyone not to use it. Therefore everyone uses it and the gap is the same. If people think this will solve the controller vs wheel and random spinning issues out then I think maybe medium would be a good compromise.

That being said I have really enjoyed having no TC/ABS in the series for myself but I have one niggle with it: If they're banned to make it more realistic, why are gears optional?

Its bloody awkward to do gears with kers, drs, looking around, engine maps etc. I know some people can do it but its a pain when using a controller.

Id rather aids where off mostly because i seem to be at the back of the quickish guys, which means if people started to use aids id probably get beat by everyone like in forza, so purely selfish reasons!
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FlavouryRug
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Re: F1-3 Initial discussion

Postby FlavouryRug » 01 Apr 2012, 22:55

Butler_F1 wrote:Its bloody awkward to do gears with kers, drs, looking around, engine maps etc. I know some people can do it but its a pain when using a controller.

Id rather aids where off mostly because i seem to be at the back of the quickish guys, which means if people started to use aids id probably get beat by everyone like in forza, so purely selfish reasons!

So cool when you get it down though. Much more satisfying than Forza gearing (and no cheaty clutch). But I do see your point, with a controller it must be a bit crazy.
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Re: F1-3 Initial discussion

Postby Butler_F1 » 01 Apr 2012, 22:57

FlavouryRug wrote:
Butler_F1 wrote:Its bloody awkward to do gears with kers, drs, looking around, engine maps etc. I know some people can do it but its a pain when using a controller.

Id rather aids where off mostly because i seem to be at the back of the quickish guys, which means if people started to use aids id probably get beat by everyone like in forza, so purely selfish reasons!

So cool when you get it down though. Much more satisfying than Forza gearing (and no cheaty clutch). But I do see your point, with a controller it must be a bit crazy.

I used manual with my wheel on F1 2010, but the up shift fell off so i dont use it any more.
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Re: F1-3 Initial discussion

Postby Boovolari » 01 Apr 2012, 23:01

So we want to close the field without making it too easy to drive - this is why I suggested turning fuel and tyre wear off. It'll close up the field and we'll still have to drive the cars.

It'd be a shame to make it an arcade experience with assists.

@Butler - manual gears on a pad is easy, and a lot more fun. Give it a crack!
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Re: F1-3 Initial discussion

Postby Butler_F1 » 01 Apr 2012, 23:09

Bookoi wrote:So we want to close the field without making it too easy to drive - this is why I suggested turning fuel and tyre wear off. It'll close up the field and we'll still have to drive the cars.

It'd be a shame to make it an arcade experience with assists.

@Butler - manual gears on a pad is easy, and a lot more fun. Give it a crack!

I like tyre wear, turning it off would punish us who can eek out an extra few laps, or like when TC got his podium by 1 stopping, or the crazy end too the monaco feature!

Gonna be hard to please everyone :(
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Re: F1-3 Initial discussion

Postby FlavouryRug » 01 Apr 2012, 23:15

Bookoi wrote:So we want to close the field without making it too easy to drive - this is why I suggested turning fuel and tyre wear off. It'll close up the field and we'll still have to drive the cars.

It'd be a shame to make it an arcade experience with assists.

I would find this more arcadey. When people put these off online the cars just feel like they have full traction control on anyway. Also let's not forget traction control exists and was in formula 1. This is more realistic (and less arcade) than turning physics off.

I really do think the best aspect of this game is the tyre and fuel sim. In fact, it's the one big thing I think this game has over Forza (as well as weather). With it off a 25 lap race would be 24 laps on options, 1 lap on primes. And then we'd bring in some sort of pit window and it all gets a bit phony and unnecessary seeing as we could just have tyre sim on.

Bookoi wrote:@Butler - manual gears on a pad is easy, and a lot more fun. Give it a crack!

If we were going to do gears, I think everyone would have to do gears. But I'd vote yes to it.
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Re: F1-3 Initial discussion

Postby PJTierney » 01 Apr 2012, 23:34

I agree that we should keep tyres and fuel, but can we give TCS a go? I'm sure the faster drivers would still be better off without it while those further back won't be spinning out every 2 laps.
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Re: F1-3 Initial discussion

Postby Tommo N7 » 02 Apr 2012, 06:25

Having gears on would put me off completely. Heck, I don't even understand how to use them! I know to shift up when you hit full revs, but that is it, don't understand what gears to go down to when cornering and stuff.
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Re: F1-3 Initial discussion

Postby Icthyes » 02 Apr 2012, 06:30

FlavouryRug wrote:Hmmm.. I'm somewhere in the middle with this. I think if traction control is allowed, even if just medium, it would be stupid for anyone not to use it. Therefore everyone uses it and the gap is the same. If people think this will solve the controller vs wheel and random spinning issues out then I think maybe medium would be a good compromise.


This is pretty much where I stand with assists. I don't want being better made easier, I just don't want to spin and then spend the rest of the race nowhere, on my own. I've had this issue with the game ever since the patch came out, I was a solid midfielder before and I could drive the car with the tyres fully red around Monza's high-speed turns with no problem. Now the thing always wants to spin on me and I do use a slightly modified set-up.
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Re: F1-3 Initial discussion

Postby RumblyLizard » 02 Apr 2012, 06:50

Would it not just be easier to disqualify smifaye?
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Re: F1-3 Initial discussion

Postby ajokay » 02 Apr 2012, 09:07

DSQing him is a bit harsh.

I say he can race, but only if another member of the club is present in his house and repeatedly punching him in the face.
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Boovolari
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Re: F1-3 Initial discussion

Postby Boovolari » 02 Apr 2012, 09:48

Fair enough, I do agree it would be shame to lose the strategy element (though I think it would have created some interesting, if bizarre strategies nonetheless) but the assists suggestion seems to have turned into something to make it easier for those who don't practice/are new to drive. I thought this was about helping us compete with Smifaye and Superdelphinus?

The majority of the grid can drive these cars just fine.

What about leaving tyre wear on but turning fuel simulation off? It lessens the advantage of a wheel in the early laps somewhat and we still get tyre strategy. And the cars will still be fun to race ;)
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Re: F1-3 Initial discussion

Postby Covamalia » 02 Apr 2012, 10:47

Bookoi wrote:What about leaving tyre wear on but turning fuel simulation off? It lessens the advantage of a wheel in the early laps somewhat and we still get tyre strategy. And the cars will still be fun to race ;)

Would also help a bit as it would mean less buttons to have to worry about without having to think of different mixes.


pjtierney2003 wrote:I agree that we should keep tyres and fuel, but can we give TCS a go? I'm sure the faster drivers would still be better off without it while those further back won't be spinning out every 2 laps.

But this is my main concern. If I had TC available, pretty much all my spins yesterday in China wouldnt have happened, which all came about by getting on the power just a touch too early. If that was the case, then I would have had a much better chance of staying with the pack. That was not through lack of practice either, I had spent about a couple of hours practicing beforehand (not just 15 mins as some suggest).
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Re: F1-3 Initial discussion

Postby Butler_F1 » 02 Apr 2012, 10:57

It took me about two weeks to get used to not having TCS when i first got the game.
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Re: F1-3 Initial discussion

Postby Boovolari » 02 Apr 2012, 11:16

Covamalia wrote:But this is my main concern. If I had TC available, pretty much all my spins yesterday in China wouldnt have happened, which all came about by getting on the power just a touch too early. If that was the case, then I would have had a much better chance of staying with the pack. That was not through lack of practice either, I had spent about a couple of hours practicing beforehand (not just 15 mins as some suggest).


When I say 15 minutes, I generally mean those that have had the game for a while getting up to speed on a particular track. Getting used to the game and car in general takes longer, but it'll come to you. Try plenty of rear wing and softer springs at the back - it helps a lot with traction.

As Tommo will testify, you will get to a tipping point where the control comes to you and you'll be fine from then on.

Also, I think some of the tracks we've had recently (Sepang, Shanghai) are particularly tough to drive, which hasn't helped.
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Re: F1-3 Initial discussion

Postby DanThorn » 02 Apr 2012, 11:18

I actually like the assists as they are now, but if people would like them turning on that's fine with me. Forced manual gears is a big no no for me though.
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Re: F1-3 Initial discussion

Postby Mr Flobadob » 04 Apr 2012, 13:31

I prefer assists off, we're all good drivers and everyone gets used to them after they've played the game enough. As for doing setups, what I've been doing this past season is using 9/11 wings so less oversteer but enough grip to stop me spinning easily. I don't mess with the gears as I don't know what I'm doing with them. As for suspension, I just move that wherever the guide tells me there'll be less tyre wear. If it's faster at the same time, so be it.

If manual gears got forced on I think I'd really struggle as I'd need another few fingers cos of using a pad. Also, having fuel and tyre wear is a big factor in making the online play fun, in my opinion.
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Re: F1-3 Initial discussion

Postby Superdelphinus » 04 Apr 2012, 15:44

I think if you take away tyre and fuel sims you are taking away one of the unique (and best) things about the game. Also, I think the only reason to turn assists on is if everyone wants to win immediately rather than being happy with gradually improving from the midfield, and seeing as an average improvement from something like 7th to 6th as a great achievement. Wen it rains, it turns the whole thing farcical if half the grid have assists on and half don't.

Re setups - the setup feature of the game doesn't really follow any of the normal rules that other games did, particularly the gp series - that's why it's easier. There is basically one quick setup for all of the tracks with minor wing variations for each track
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Re: F1-3 Initial discussion

Postby PJTierney » 04 Apr 2012, 16:06

Superdelphinus wrote:Re setups - the setup feature of the game doesn't really follow any of the normal rules that other games did, particularly the gp series - that's why it's easier. There is basically one quick setup for all of the tracks with minor wing variations for each track

It's an unfortunate aspect of the game but I have to agree. For most tracks you can push half your settings to 1/1, the other half to 11/11 and get away with it.

In terms of bunching up the field, you tend to have 3 groups at the moment. There's Smifaye/SuperD/Shouty at the front, 2 or 3 drivers at the back and then everybody else in and around the middle. The midfield at the moment is quite good and varied, and I can't think of anything that can be done to otherwise bring the fastest/slowest drivers into the equation. TCS will help everybody but it might be of bigger benefit to those at the back who are simply spinning out every race.
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Re: F1-3 Initial discussion

Postby Icthyes » 04 Apr 2012, 17:12

Manual gears is actually quite easy, if you map KERS to LB you can shift at the same time, DRS is just one button press in between two others. But I'm not sure about forcing it.
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Re: F1-3 Initial discussion

Postby Superdelphinus » 04 Apr 2012, 19:45

The other thing to think about is whether bringing everyone together is actually the best thing to do. Having a lot of people running around at the same pace is not necessarily a good thing, unless there is impeccable racecraft to go along with it. The beginning of the oz race is a good example of what happens with a lot of people all in the same places at once! Partly why I think qualifying is essential
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Re: F1-3 Initial discussion

Postby FlavouryRug » 04 Apr 2012, 21:51

I agree. If Smifaye is better than us he deserves to be at the front. We should get better to challenge him rather than assist our way there.

But, if there's an argument for equalling out controller and wheel and making it less of a spin fest, there may be a good argument for TC. Although I used full TC with a friend today and it did feel a bit too arcadey for my liking. I also didn't realise it was either allow any TC or off, I thought you could go medium. For me, full is too much.

Maybe it would be best to just put it down to a vote?
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Re: F1-3 Initial discussion

Postby Butler_F1 » 04 Apr 2012, 22:08

Im not being funny but ive used the controller in every race ive been in and i can count the spins ive had on 1 hand. If people could handle the HGTM cars with out TC then they should be able to handle these.

I put in the time to learn it and dont want to end up loosing points because people can't do it. Its not hard.

Im shit at racing and i can do it, i got two podiums in the rain when the TCS theory should be at its strongest but it was fine.
Last edited by Butler_F1 on 04 Apr 2012, 22:16, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: F1-3 Initial discussion

Postby Mr Flobadob » 04 Apr 2012, 22:14

What Butler said. Using TC on a controller is not difficult.
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